…without waterboarding?

Huh, would you look at that..

Washington (CNN) — Senior Obama administration officials revealed late Tuesday they’ve secretly gained the cooperation of family members of Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab to help get the Christmas Day airline bomb suspect talking.
The cooperation effort has led to actionable intelligence that could help prevent terror attempts on U.S. soil, the senior officials said.

No torture, no waterboard,no stress positions,no violation of human rights or our own laws… and he’s actually talking and without a military tribunal to boot!


The senior administration officials said that since AbdulMutallab began talking to investigation again last week, he has been cooperating on a daily basis. The officials added the information gained from the interrogations has been disseminated throughout the intelligence community.

One of the senior Obama officials, who bluntly said the Republican attacks have “frustrated the hell out of me,” asserted that gaining the trust of the family was the best way to handle the case and helped the administration gain valuable intelligence from the suspect, who is believed to have ties to an al Qaeda affiliate in Yemen.

“It could be used to disrupt other attacks,” one of the senior Obama officials said of the intelligence gleaned from AbdulMutallab in the interrogations, who added the president has been getting regular updates on what the suspect has been revealing.

The Republican response so far is to complain that President Obama has wasted these 6 weeks, but let’s have some truth for once shall we…

U.S. military teams and intelligence agencies are deeply involved in secret joint operations with Yemeni troops who in the past six weeks have killed scores of people, among them six of 15 top leaders of a regional al-Qaeda affiliate, according to senior administration officials.

The operations, approved by President Obama and begun six weeks ago, involve several dozen troops from the U.S. military’s clandestine Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), whose main mission is tracking and killing suspected terrorists. The American advisers do not take part in raids in Yemen, but help plan missions, develop tactics and provide weapons and munitions. Highly sensitive intelligence is being shared with the Yemeni forces, including electronic and video surveillance, as well as three-dimensional terrain maps and detailed analysis of the al-Qaeda network.

I know some were worried about AbdulMutallab being mirandized and like John McCain, were trying to attack for Eric Holder for his decision and I guess prosecute him for treason(ok, not the treason part-or are they) but it looks like they can put those feary-tales to bed.

“It is also my understanding that Mr. Abdulmutallab has provided valuable information. Is that correct?” Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein asked.

“Yes,” Mueller replied.

Mueller then confirmed that the interrogation has continued despite the fact that the suspect had been advised of his right to have a lawyer and remain silent.

Now this is something I also found to be of interest

Since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, politicians and the courts have wrangled with the thorny question of how to treat suspected terrorists. The Supreme Court has not weighed in on whether the government has the right to hold a civilian as a military prisoner, and both times it appeared the court would get the chance to decide, President George W. Bush opted instead to bring the cases in civilian criminal courts

George Bush was hard on terror; he, Dick Cheney and those like them are the only ones who can keep us safe. President Obama, following their plan makes us look weak to our enemies though and thus makes us more vulnerable to attacks. How does that work?

The fact is we have a 100% success rate in trying terrorists in civilian court and as far as I know the only ones walking around and back to their old tricks, are walking around because Dick Cheney released them! We’ve killed or captured more terrorist leaders under Obama’s 1st year than we did in the last year of Bush. We’ve had more ‘drone-launched missile strikes’ in President Obama’s 1st year than in Bush’s last 3 years. We are spending more money to “expand secretive Special Operations units, deploy more unmanned aerial drones” , but somehow it’s not good enough because President OBama doesn’t torture, because he doesn’t throw everyone into a military tribunal, because he  treats people as the laws this country was founded on tell him to treat people, so  he is still weak on terrorism. If anything, the increased drones attacks,increased terrorist casualties, successful interrogation of a  terrorist should prove that not only is he not weak on terrorism, but that he’s doing something pretty right.

Alas… like the elusive Osama Bin Laden tape that surfaces only after some major event has happened, I expect a carefully worded press release from the most elusive of all creatures, Dick Cheney. Fox news and the conservative blogosphere need something to come after Mr. Obama on since he ate them for lunch at the GOP retreat last week, coupled with this new information on the lack of torturing actually working and Cheney is probably being roused from his slumber now.

I don’t expect anyone from  the right to commend the President for a job well done,that would be ridiculous and let’s face it, the halfhearted attempt would come out more condescending than anything else. The GOP for all it’s glory has painted themselves into a corner. In their quest to dismiss this President, they have painted him as a weak, incompetent, unintelligent, lying, dangerous,socialistic,Nazi-like, thief looking to steal your money to give it to the poor and your guns to give them to the Muslims.  I’m sure there is something to nit-pick about and if not, they can take a page out of a GOP strategists memo and just lie, but I thought this was a pretty good job of getting the guy to talk without having to drown him 1st.

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13 responses to “…without waterboarding?

  • uselesslegs

    The one thing that makes me go, “HUH?!?!”, while republicans keep telling the masses that we’re unsafe and that this and other situations are being handled *incorrectly*, is Eric Holder’s memo REMINDING Senators and Congressperson’s who keep chanting their *unsafe* and *wrong* mantra…that Obama’s peeps are following EXACTLY/TO THE LETTER the same procedures and protocol laid out by the Bush Admin as to how to handle and proceed concerning terrorist on our soil.

    Does it not count because the person in question was not water boarded?

    Or is it because using the EXACT same procedures of the Bush admin, *minus* the water boarding, implies that the fervor and rationale that was used to justify torture was the logic of fear?

  • ekg

    I think it’s a vengeance factor. I’ve said it before, if they want to torture people for vengeance then put it to a vote… without a doubt,it would be passed no problem… and I don’t know that I would blame people for passing it, especially when they phrase it the way you know they would “If a man raped and murdered your baby, wouldn’t want to torture him for it?” who could say no to that? because you know it would eventually get turned into “well, I guess I just love my child more than you”

    as for Holder’s letter..LOL. that’s not all it said.. It reminded them that Bush criminally prosecuted like 300 terrorists in civilian courts..it reminded them that Padilla was reverted back to civilian court because Bush’s own pocket man and Reagan appointee Judge Michael Mukasey(who them became GWB AG) said to hold him otherwise was unconstitutional and reamed the hell out of Bush for holding him otherwise…

    Holder also remind them that Bush also read all these terrorists their Miranda rights.. reminded them that the Bush administration were the ones who set 2 guys free who then went on to train the Christmas bomber, and that he got his Visa from the Bush administration.. so if they really want to point fingers.. there is a direct fucking line from the Bush admin to a terrorist attempt.. of course since it didn’t happen on his watch it didn’t count.. not that it would have counted had it happened on his watch since not even 9/11 counts as happening on his watch.. like every member of the BCS (bush crime syndicate) says today, there were no attacks on this country under George Bush, but there is one under Obama.. so game, set, match.. Obama is a failure who can’t keep the country safe.. *rollseyes*

    …like how in the fuck is Obama supposed to compete with the people who released the terrorists who trained this underwear bomber kid and then gave the kid the Visa to get into this country so he could blow it up.. Obama can’t investigate the last administration for their failures.. so I guess we’ll just have to catch them all when they come back to bite us in the ass..

    I mean seriously.. if there was that much of a straight, direct..
    Bush+A+B+C=terrorist attempt
    with Clinton or Obama’s name on it.. could you imagine the insanity that would ensue on the Right? But people like Mitch McConnell sit there and lie about it and then try and make it a direct line implicating Obama anyway.. it’s pure insanity.. and has reduced most, if not all those championing this kind of thing as ‘white noise’.. irritating, but irrelevant..

    here’s the letter btw
    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/AG_Letter_2-3-10.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

    so what are we left with when Mitch McConnell comes out after reading that letter and says ‘it’s clear that the Obama administration is a danger to the American people for either ignoring,changing or failing to use any of the previous techniques that always proved successful and instead uses the ones that have never and will never work’ (paraphrased of course-lol)

    is he mentally unbalanced? can he not understand the written word? Is he flat out lying because he just doesn’t want any credit given to this president? does he loathe any credit given to this president because he is a Democrat? or because he is Black.. (yeah, I dare to ask).. because these are the only question we are left to answer since ‘it’s the truth’ has no bearing at all when it comes to this man and most if not all of the GOP and their minions..

  • Sam

    Just for clarification, AbdulMutallab’s family was ‘kinda on our side’ before their son even tried to blow up the plane.

    Unless this is an outlier, there should be something similar for other high level or important Al Qeada leaders we may capture.

    If we are to use this AbdulMutallab’s experience as a model going forward, please explain what family members will help elicit information from the following:

    Ayman al-Zawahri
    Bin Laden
    Saad Bin Laden
    Saif Saif al-Din al-Ansari al-Adel

    Also, if you could provide how you think this method could have been used for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM)?

    I suppose my question is, do you think the AbdulMutallab model should be the standard operating procedure going forward for all captured Al-Qeada leaders who might have information of an impending attack? Or, is this a unique example of luck.

    Knowing that an attempted attack on US soil by July is “certain”….. read that again, an attack is “certain” by July.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/us/politics/03intel.html

    Knowing that, hypothetically, we capture UBL … should we look for family members that will try to help? Or should we get all Jack Bauer on that @ss?

  • ekg

    please explain what family members will help elicit information from the following:

    Ayman al-Zawahri
    Bin Laden
    Saad Bin Laden
    Saif Saif al-Din al-Ansari al-Adel

    you want me to prove/disprove your made up “fantasy”?

    are you serious?

    Gordo, just say it doesn’t matter what Obama does you’ll always be on the side against him and you will always be on the side that calls him a danger to the safety of the US

    seriously, I don’t know who their family is, what their relationship to their family is.. what would be the motivating factor in making them talk since I’m not an interogation expert, I only listen to what the expect tell me and thats that Obama’s way is working and working well from the sounds of the singing coming from Abdulmutallab .. btw, he’s the one telling us of the impending attack that you want me to say whether should torture OBL to get info about..

    you’re ridiculous you know that.. we are in the process of your fantasy right now, learning about an impending attack, and we’re learning about it using ‘regular’ interrogation tactics.. but I suppose that’s not good enough for you.. you want more blood, more vengeance.. fine, I said go for it, put it to a vote and I might vote with you on it..but if you want to know something from a person, the intel experts say that torture doesn’t work.. *shrug*

    and seriously, that you would ask “what family members will help elicit information” from your list of people..being that there is no way on the planet me and pretty much everyone else in the world with the exception of about 7-10 people would know, is flat out insane..

    please troll somewhere else Gordo..

  • Howey

    “you want me to prove/disprove your made up “fantasy”?”

    I suspect the current “model” will create far more respect for our country than a fictional character on a Fox TV show.

    *ekg edit–play nice Howie*

  • lil mike

    Ha!

    I actually found your comments the most interesting part of your blog:

    he got his Visa from the Bush administration.. so if they really want to point fingers.. there is a direct fucking line from the Bush admin to a terrorist attempt..

    I mean seriously.. if there was that much of a straight, direct..
    Bush+A+B+C=terrorist attempt

    Again, it’s Bush’s fault!

    An Padilla is not exactly an equivalent example. Padilla is a US citizen. Not exactly the same situation as AbdulMutallab.

    Now,whats with the strawman argument about torture? No one has been arguing that AbdulMutallab be torured, but you seem to be setting that up as a either or situation. Either we torture him, or we get his family to make him cooperate.

    Or that classifying him as an enemy combatant is the same as torture.

    I’m glad that the administration, and thereby the country, had the dumb luck to have a terrorist who is actually influenced by his family to cooperate. That is a very lucky break, but you seem to want to set anti-terrorism policy on lucky breaks. How many terrorists would this actually work on?

    Whatever this is, it’s not a “regular” interrogation tactic.

    I hope we continue to have the kind of crazy luck that has a bomb fail to go off, and a terrorist bomber being influenced by family to cooperate. Churchill said, God protects fools, drunks, and the United States of America.” It looks like the Obama administration intends to keep God plenty busy in protecting us, since we decided to forgo that option ourselves.

  • ekg

    are you saying it wasn’t the Bush admin who let the guys who trained AbdulMutallab go, and it wasn’t the Bush admin who gave him a visa?

    please tell me who it was then..

    ok fine.. take Padilla out… now you only have 300 more to use as examples.. damnitman!

    why is it always about torture with you? You are the ‘black and white’ ‘all/or nothing’ person here, not me…I mentioned quite a few things.. even military tribunals and Miranda rights.. and yet like “it’s bush’s fault’ you always default back to torture..

    it’s interesting.. psychologically speaking.. you deflect truth when confronted with it with a condescending ‘oh sure, it’s Bush’s fault’ .. when sorry but, yes it was.. but it’s your defense response to make the person who is pointing out another screw up feel like maybe they are picking on the guy..

    but that’s not the interesting part, the interesting part is the ‘torture’ bit.. that must have really damaged you in some way to always default to that..

    btw,I didn’t bring it up, Sam did with his ‘go jack bauer on his ass’ quote.. but you skipped over that and go after me for replying to the torture question.. Well, I guess Bush’s use of torture is such a sore spot with you that instead of renouncing him for it, you attack anyone who talks about it..

    But to answer your question on who is asking for Bush’s old policies, that policy being torture since it’s the only thing Obama doesn’t do…that would be Sen. McConnell..

    “Again and again, the administration’s approach has been to announce a new policy or to change an existing one based not on a careful study of the facts, but as a way of conspicuously distancing itself from the policies of the past — even ones that worked,” McConnell said. “In short, it has too often put symbolism over security.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/32464.html#ixzz0eiOkPl5Z

    he’s oh so pissed that Obama would dare to change policies.. even ones that worked… even tho he hasn’t.. well, he doesn’t torture anymore.. that’s the only thing he’s changed..

    You just can’t stop for one second and be proud of your president and country.. not with this president in office. you take every chance you can to knock every accomplishment down a peg.. it’s a sickness with you and Gordo and people like you..

    How about acknowledging the others ‘wins’ Obama’s given this country to keep it safe.. ya know the increased missile strikes, the increased deaths/capture of terrorist, the increased pentagon budget.. why do you incessantly knock your president down even when he’s doing a better job than you and your GOP prophesied that he would.. and not surprisingly doing it better than you guys did..are you that afraid of him getting any credit for anything good? are you that afraid of the American people might actually see him as he is and not how you make him out to be?

    Let’s hope the terrorist don’t listen to you, the GOP and especially McConnell.. because to listen to al of you we are weaklings deserving to be attacked.. it’s almost like you are baiting and begging them to attack..like that would prove something to you. It wouldn’t ya know.. prove anything to you. It would just kill Americans and hurt this country even more and even longer.. but it wouldn’t prove anything to you because you already believe Obama is dangerous,weak and incapable of leading us.. but it would make you feel better I’m sure..

    how bizarre..

    anyway, I see it now. no matter when or where it will be Obama’s fault… you can’t even take the direct and undisputed link from the Bush admin to the Christmas day bombing and find any fault with him whatsoever..

    your denial of this almost didn’t even make me angry.. there was a little ‘tinge’ of anger there.. whew! because when the anger is gone the only thing left for you is indifference and pity.. and while I don’t mind feeling that way about the total ideologues like Dick and Iceman.. I will regret feeling that way about you.. but if you can’t even admit Bush’s actions in the lead-up to AbdulMutallab.. then I don’t know how much more you and I have to talk about

  • Howey

    WTF???

    What happened to my 1st Amendment rights???

    Oh. I forgot. They were bought out by a big corporation.

    Pfft! It’s not like he hasn’t heard it before! 🙂

  • lil mike

    Am I saying that the Bush administration didn’t release people from Gitmo who went on to train AbdulMutallab?

    No

    Am I saying that AbdulMutallab didn’t get his visa during the Bush administration?

    No

    But you were the one who was trying to play partisan on this issue, not me. I’ve said many times that Bush/Cheney went soft on those guys. My position has consistently been that all those guys should be kept until cessation of hostilities. And we are not even near the half way point on that!
    Your position? You’ve consistently opposed the status of enemy combatant and wanted those prisoners either tried in civilian courts or released. So how would things have been different under the Bush administration rather than an ekg administration? You would have let even more people go; the majority of them actually. So I’m not sure where you get your partisan tic mark on that issue.
    The visa? We both know in 2008 if there had been a Democratic administration in power, AbdulMutallab would have still gotten his visa. What would have been the reason to deny it in 2008? I can’t imagine a Democratic administration denying him a visa in 2008 since even after receiving intelligence that he was a radical in 2009 they didn’t pull his visa.

    “‘oh sure, it’s Bush’s fault’ .. when sorry but, yes it was.. but it’s your defense response to make the person who is pointing out another screw up feel like maybe they are picking on the guy…”

    You love the partisan blame game, and then get offended when someone contradicts it. If you don’t want to be called on it, don’t do it.

    As far as your question, “why is it always torture with you?” Uh, go back and check the title of your blog. You brought it up.

    “No torture, no waterboard,no stress positions,no violation of human rights or our own laws… and he’s actually talking and without a military tribunal to boot!”
    “But to answer your question on who is asking for Bush’s old policies, that policy being torture”

    I didn’t pull the topic out of thin air, I pulled it out of your blog.

    That’s the strawman you are trying to set up. Your false choice is either to treat terrorists as criminal defendants with all the rights and privileges of our system, or…
    TORTURE!

    “How about acknowledging the others ‘wins’ Obama’s given this country to keep it safe.. ya know the increased missile strikes, the increased deaths/capture of terrorist”

    I’m pretty sure I have acknowledged that on the muche. I’m glad that we are killing terrorists. Three cheers for President Obama for killing terrorists! I mean, I do approve of that policy and have no problem saying so, but your blog topic is about an aspect of his policy that I totally disagree with and have also said so, and will continue to do so. And that policy? To treat terrorists as criminal defendants and hope we get lucky and can get family to get them to cooperate in spite of advice of counsel and a right to remain silent. So we are going to give them the right to remain silent from the git go and then hope we can offer a juicy enough carrot to sweet talk them into betraying a cause they were willing to die for. It actually seems to have worked this time, but as a policy, I suspect this is going to be a disappointment.

  • ekg

    Am I saying that the Bush administration didn’t release people from Gitmo who went on to train AbdulMutallab?

    No

    Am I saying that AbdulMutallab didn’t get his visa during the Bush administration?

    No

    well then stop deflecting from it with the incessant “Oh it’s Bush’s fault”..Yes, it is his fault and you admit it! so stop acting like I’m full of shit when I point it out… I’m sorry the (R) president and VP did so many things that you didn’t like, I’m sorry that they did more things everyone hated, I’m sorry that we are still feeling the effect of their actions.. and most of all I’m sorry that your pride is hurt when you are reminded, but that doesn’t negate that YES! Some times, a lot of times it is his fault!

    But you use that like it some kind of debate tool..it’s your crutch anymore… like you don’t have to acknowledge it, prove it,disprove it.. and since you use it when you do agree and when you don’t agree.. it’s a non-position..

    If you and the rest of the GOP could just swallow that pride for once and acknowledge what you already agree on and stop penalizing those who will acknowledge what you won’t.. we could actually move on from Bush.. It’s this denial game ya all play, that keeps it going. Don’t you understand the D party isn’t the party that forces you to grovel when you are wrong.. we’re the ones who live and let live.. Just because that is the rules you guys play by, doesn’t mean we do.. so when you put up this front that even when you know he was wrong, even when you agree with the person pointing out, but that they are the one who are part of some conspiracy… it’s bullshit.. and then to say “well lets see how you like it” and pull everything out of your collective asses to throw at Obama in the hopes that it will erase Bush’s failure, the same way you did with Clinton.. is 4th grade petty..

    my position has always been try them.. !OMG how bad of a position for me to be in..! You can’t just hold people without cause forever.. Cheney/Bush of all people proved that.. they had to release a lot of innocents that were scooped up in this process.. and that’s the part you ignore, if even the most feared of all ‘sheriffs’ in the ‘wild west’ Dick Cheney couldn’t find reason to hold someone, when even he had to acquiesce that hey, some of the people are innocent, if even he, who could hold anyone, for any thing, for any amount of time decided some people were actual innocents and must be released.. then how can you say “nope, hold them all indefinitely and let God sort them out”

    and lets stop right here.. ‘tribunals’.. we both know what a person will go thru once they get in there.. we know what being called an ‘enemy combatant’ will force them to endure.. they are not under the Geneva convention rules remember.. 30hr interrogations,stress positions,right-up-to-the-line torture interrogation techniques.. you know this, but for whatever reason you’ve decide to ignore that this is also what your enemy combatants get to look forward to besides not having their Miranda rights read to them.. you know this, stop pretending otherwise.. and stop coming after me for reminding you of this..

    sometimes innocents do get caught up in something.. sometimes a neighbor who owns a guy a goat and doesn’t want to pay him that goat, makes up a story that he’s working for terrorists… what about those guys Mike? the ones who are unequivocally innocent? why do you want to hold them indefinitely? and doesn’t doing so create that which we are fighting? Those are who I am talking about.. I obviously don’t mean OBL and those like him.. I’m talking about the truly innocent ones.. they are never in your or the GOP equation.. and it’s bullshit that you make my voice for them out to be the voice for OBL and KSM.. it’s another false and bullshit tactic that you,Gordo and the rest of GOP employ.. same thing with this idea that you’re only one on the side of freedom.. if you want to continue labeling me so black and white then you will have an open enemy before long..

    the “OBL’s” and “KSM’s” that can’t be tried in court because either their cases are so damaged by illegal techniques or we absolutely know they are guilty but can’t find a shred of actionable proof to try them.. those should be held indefinitely if not taken out and a bullet put into their head once their usefulness is through.. I can distinguish between the two types of people.. why can’t you? and why can’t you let me?

    You promote this idea like you’re the only one on the side of Freedom, well that comes with a responsibly of following the law even when you don’t like to..if we are fighting a nation who has no laws because they have no laws.. then how are we any different from them when we skirt the law or outright break it? If we are fighting an ‘insurgency’ that doesn’t distinguish the innocent from the infidelity.. then how are we better when we don’t either? You guys ignore that, you don’t address it and you mock anyone who brings it up.. and to be honest.. I’m a little sick of it.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t acknowledge anything Obama does without your tongue firmly planted in your cheek or with such a dismissive and condescending attitude that it looks more like an insult than compliment.. You may think today Bush went soft, and I’ll gloss over this new to-the-end-of-his-term-when it-was-en vogue-for-the-GOP-to-throw-the-guy-under-the-bus revelation.. but if you thought he was tough before and if Obama is doing exactly and even more in most cases than the tough sheriff did, then how can you still find fault and insult when the only thing he doesn’t do is your favorite thing to mock, torture.. Gitmo is still open, Bagram is still going strong, enemy combatants are still being held,missiles are still flying, more money is being funneled to help the military fight, more men have been given to the military.. the single thing that is not the same is torturing people.. so when you and your GOP complain that Obama is throwing out that which ‘worked’..since he’s not the one who started trying terrorists in civil court or Miranda them.. you are arguing for torture.. since it’s the only thing of Bushs he’s thrown out!

    huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. why in the hell do I bother…

    look, I apologize for what I said in the last reply.. I don’t take it back because it’s how I feel, but I do apologize for saying it. .. there was a time when you’d debate something, when there was some kind of hope that you would see the other side,recognize and acknowledge it’s legitimacy , when you wouldn’t put people in the ‘all or nothing’ category.. when, if you agreed you’d say so in instead of rolling your eyes and saying catch phrases like “Oh it’s Bush’s fault”.. there was a time when you were weren’t a closed door with a sign on the outside that said “NO!” I refuse to see anything other than my ideology”..and I think that time is dead.. and true to form you either will not or cannot see the difference in anything I’ve said.. so at this point.. why bother saying anything?

  • lil mike

    I’m really trying to figure out what the importance is to your blame game. You’ve declared Bush responsible for the Christmas Day near bombing, 11 months after he left office, however you’ve also declared Bush responsible for 9/ll, even though he was in office 9 months at the time, and the attackers were already in the country when he took office.

    The fact that the Bush administration released prisoners from Gitmo who assisted in the training in the panty bomber you find as a smoking gun that this is really a Bush plot, yet by your own previous admission, many more prisoners would have been released under your/democratic administration. Either try them in a court or let ‘em go right? In fact, you gave quite a stirring defense of Bush’s policy:

    “You can’t just hold people without cause forever.. Cheney/Bush of all people proved that.. they had to release a lot of innocents that were scooped up in this process.. and that’s the part you ignore, if even the most feared of all ’sheriffs’ in the ‘wild west’ Dick Cheney couldn’t find reason to hold someone, when even he had to acquiesce that hey, some of the people are innocent, if even he, who could hold anyone, for any thing, for any amount of time decided some people were actual innocents and must be released.. then how can you say “nope, hold them all indefinitely and let God sort them out””

    Cheney would be so proud to hear you defending him!

    And the visa. You don’t seem to be making an argument that a Democratic administration in 2008 would have known better than to give this guy a visa. That would hardly be a plausible scenario since a democratic administration, warned by the guy’s own father that he was a radical didn’t get his visa lifted.

    And you say I’m partisan! Ha!

    To me, your smoking guns are shooting blanks. I didn’t bring up a blame the administration game, you did. And your “proof”, was, yes, full of shit.

    And now you are mad at me for not joining in your pointless exercise. I know that as far as you’re concerned, all terrorist attacks, past and future, are Bush’s fault. But hey, news flash from the real world: Sometimes, it just isn’t about Bush. You comment on a really ridiculous theory about this is all Bush’s fault, and then when I show you the gigantic holes in your story, call me partisan.

    I assume this Christmas bombing: Bush’s fault must be really popular on your leftie blogs, but it doesn’t change the fact that for the dumbest of luck, we almost has a passenger liner blown up over Detroit and you are trying to figure out how to blame Bush for it. The keys to stopping this were not in the Bush administration’s hands, they were in the current administration’s hands. They dropped the ball, something even they finally admitted, but you are charging ahead ignoring that in your attack of Bush.

    See, to me this is a sign of your ideological blinders, not mine.

    I’m not interested in blaming Obama for the Christmas bomber. I’m interested in getting the problem fixed, making the country safer, and getting his head in the game; something that I think (and hope) is happening, albeit belatedly. If the administration doesn’t get this right, we all suffer, but you go ahead and cover for their mistakes, blame Bush for this attack, and the next ones, and all subsequent attacks from now on, and just ignore the threat that radical Islam poses to us. I hope someday you will realize that it’s a greater threat than Bush.

    “…and lets stop right here.. ‘tribunals’.. we both know what a person will go thru once they get in there.. we know what being called an ‘enemy combatant’ will force them to endure.. they are not under the Geneva convention rules remember.. 30hr interrogations,stress positions,right-up-to-the-line torture interrogation techniques.. you know this, but for whatever reason you’ve decide to ignore that this is also what your enemy combatants get to look forward to besides not having their Miranda rights read to them.. you know this, stop pretending otherwise.. and stop coming after me for reminding you of this…”

    Virtually everything in the above statement is factually inaccurate. We are no longer doing waterboarding, stress positions, or anything like that. All of the current interrogation is right out of the Army’s field manual, just like you wanted. So why are you still trying to pretend we are operating Gestapo HQ in Gitmo? Of course, this is all irrelevant if you don’t think having a status of enemy combatant, or indefinite detention is legal. Of course if you are saying that, the Obama administration begs to differ, since they have already decided to keep that and conduct military tribunals for certain enemy combatants. So, which is it? Either everything the Obama administration is now doing with regards to enemy combatants is illegal, and Obama should be tried for war crimes right besides Bush, or … it’s not illegal. In which case, why are you so opposed to enemy combatant status for the panty bomber or any other terrorist we manage to grab?

    Your attacks of partisanship against me ring rather hollow, when I’ve been consistent throughout in my positions, but your positions seem firmly based on the political party of the administration in question. Partisan much?

  • ekg

    sure Mike.. anything you say..

  • Delsie Pelkowski

    We often notice articles like this where you give useful information about the topic. But what is your opinion about the topic? Could you explain yourself a bit more?

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