They really will stop at nothing..

After reading Fox News version of Natoma Canfield ‘s plight and after getting over my disgust at the flippant skew of their story,I decided to see just what kind of people Fox news is playing to. I was sure those commenting on the piece would be as appalled as I was after reading that article tripe because who wouldn’t be? This idea that she ‘may’ get financial help for the treatment and that somehow negates her ordeal was so outrageous that even the truly heartless,mindless,GOP sycophant must be taken aback.

Oh how I was wrong.

Before  we get to the truly ugly part of our society, the part that feeds on Fox News and GOP rhetoric..Remember where this started. Natoma wrote a letter to the President explaining her situation to him, she had had insurance and had paid it’s high premiums. She explained that last year she paid “$6075.24 in premiums, $2415.26 for medical care, $225 in co-pays and $1500 for prescriptions.” For all of this, her insurance company paid out a staggering $935 to her benefit. What a wonderful return she pays over $10,000 and the insurance gives her $935. I can’t imagine anyone looking at that and saying “A yup, seems right to me”.. but, they do.

When Anthem sent Natoma a letter letting her know that after being with this company for 11 years,  in 2010, her policy would be increased over 40% to $8496.24.

Natoma had to let the insurance go.

$8500 a year,  that’s over $700 a month… for health insurance. Is this normal and satisfactory to people? Are there a lot of us out there who could afford coverage for one person  for the great cost of $177 a week?

When did this become the normal part of American life, so normal that people across the country are not outrage just at that? $177 a week.. not for food,shelter,utilities.. but health insurance on one person? What she if had to cover a family of four?

That is where Fox picks up her story and where this blogs begins. Natoma said in her letter that she was afraid to think about where she would get the money to pay her bills now that she didn’t have healthcare. A perfectly reasonable fear, a fear that even people with insurance might have just because of the emotions  and costs involved. But to Foxnews and those who champion them, this is the pit of waste they decided to swim in. Instead of going after Anthem, they set their sights on Natoma’s fears.

Natoma Canfield, the cancer-stricken woman who has become a centerpiece of President Obama’s push for health care reform, will not lose her home over her medical bills and will probably qualify for financial aid, a top official at the Cleveland medical center treating her told

Sure, Natoma might qualify for aid… might. So there you go people, nothing to see here.. move along.

Of course  gold coins might fall out of her ears tomorrow too, but that doesn’t negate another in a long,long list of examples of an insurance company profiting on the health of Americans.

Natoma could possibly be healed by a local voodoo priest laying hands upon her, that doesn’t change the fact that insurance companies have gotten out of control when it comes to their profit margin.

If this ‘probability’ stopped there, then maybe it could be seen as a ‘feel good’ piece. Ya know, a “Thank God, she has one last thing to worry about in this time of need” maybe it would be ok. But it didn’t and as the comments show, it produced the exact feeling FoxNews hoped and always hopes to provoke in people. Of course “feeling” is a loose translation of the word as you’ll see.

Before that though, there seems to be this running theme everywhere of “Well they can just get medicaid” in one breath and “We don’t need government healthcare paid for by tax-payers” in the other.  A everyone has insurance because they can just use the ERrepetitiveness that somehow excuses the point of having to use the ER like a primary care doctor instead of a.. ya know.. emergency room. Here’s my question, who is paying for that cost when people who don’t have insurance use the ER?   Who do people think is paying for Medicaid ?  The Fairy-Medical-Mother? Do the people wiping drool off their chin from all their blathering about tax-payer government health care not understand that the medicaid they are telling Natoma to get is tax-payer paid for government healthcare?

I don’t think they do.

While we’re playing in the realm of pretend, what if she paid the extortion to her insurance company and they dropped her after she was diagnosed with leukemia? There is an equal, if not better, chance that  would have happened as there is a chance that she ‘might‘ or will ‘probably’ get medicaid or some kind of charity to pay her bill. Had she been dropped,  then what? Who cares because she could have gone on tax-payer government healthcare, but  as long as she doesn’t pay for her own government healthcare it’s ok?

The idea that anyone could say “Hey  you know what? I think you should pay out $10,000 a year, get $900 paid back and next year pay 40% more and get back less.. “ Is pretty much the stupidest thing I think I’ve ever heard. But it seems to be the common thread these days.  She is after all only a house-cleaner, it’s not like she own AIG or anything important like that.

The idea that anyone would champion a system  that says “Look, be happy.. after all those years of paying into this product and getting no return, now you can go on charity so quit your bitching” is not only the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard but probably the most callous. I can only hope that  Karma X3 finds the people saying this with some event that forces them to seek help from a ‘charity’. I just hope they don’t meet people like themselves at those charities who tell  them to go find help somewhere else. Or worse, tell them they’ve helped too many this month so maybe come back next month and see if they can get some help.

We’re the best country on the planet,  the only SuperPower, the beacon of all and the best we can do is.. “She might get charity to help pay for her illness and she probably won’t lose her house”?

As if that’s even a concern, after reading what the Foxnewies GOP sycophants  think.. she really deserves the loss of her home because she should have paid the insurance company their extortion fee and her mortgage and just stopped eating and watching TV, the lazy bitch.


South Carolina

How can she lose her house? I though Obama fixed the housing crisis, and nobody is losing their houses. I guess if she had paid her insurance bill and skipped her house payment, Obama would have her up on stage supporting his next housing bail out! This guy doesn’t miss a chance. Here’s quick fix Obama, you’ve got millions. You were able to raise 600 million for your campaign. Why don’t you lend her the money to pay her bills? This is getting crazy. She made a choice. She chose to pay her house payment. Millions of americans make choices every day. Does she have a TV? Does she have cable? Did she choose to buy those? It’s called responsibility and prioritizing. She has to choose between food and a house payment…does the government buy her groceries? She has to choose between clothes and a house payment…does the government buy her clothes? Where does it end? Why not let the government pay for everything. Food, water, shelter are all necessities. Like health care, can’t we find imaginary rights in the constitution to cover those things too!

That’s right, she made a choice folks. She should have paid her insurance instead of her mortgage and really.. she has a TV right? She chose to pay them, so there you go! She deserves everything she gets!  The stupid woman should learn to prioritize, doesn’t she know that the American Dream isn’t to grow up, work hard and buy a house. No! It’s grow up, work hard, pay your insurance even when they’re raping you.

It’s truly disgusting the level of bottom-feeder that the GOP and FoxNews has succeeding in producing. If that comment was the only one like it I would attribute it to a mutant strain of GOP, unfortunately… it’s not


Sad story – but here are the facts. This lady could have increased her deductible and reduced her costs. We could be having a fund raiser to pay her $5,000.00 deductible – but no – the taxpayers will be paying the full boat. How can Anthem be the bad guy? What do you think her costs are projected to be? Do you think it would have been cheaper to pay the premium and have coverage or to pay no premiums and have no funds to pay for the care? Personal Responsibility.

How can that poor insurance company be at fault? All they did was continue to raise her rates to the point where she had to decide between them and her mortgage, shheesh.. it’s her fault for not just doubling her deductible, I mean she only paid out $10,000 in costs last year! Hello! Anthem gave her $900 worth coverage for it, what does she want.. more?

It’s gross isn’t it? I just wish that was it…


As a physician in a town of 75000, I can say that everyone gets treated, and nobody loses their home. Medical bills are the last things people pay. When someone is evaluating your credit, the very last thing they look at are medical bills

As a physician, I recommend we all just not pay our bills.. no one loses their house, no one cares that it’s on your credit and all those non-paid bills really have no affect on the system because the Fairy-Medical-Mother bibbity,bobbity,boos them away.

Are you out of your fucking mind? The solution to “paid for by everyone, shared by everyone’ Universal Health care is? We just don’t pay our bills when we incur them because it’s not like anyone has to pay for it anyway.

Fuck me! Someone shoot me if I get this stupid!


New York

iamback: Do you not realize that a lot of people are going through the same thing? If you don’t pay for your health insurance, you don’t get health insurance. Many qualify for Medicaid. Everyone qualifies for private charity. Have you ever been to a benefit? That’s what benefits are for. Why do all Americans have to suffer for the plight of a few? There are other ways than allowing the Progressives to take over our lives. You only need a little bit of common sense to understand what this bill is all about and it doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with health care. Everyone gets treatment, whether they can afford it or not! That’s the fact that the government hopes to keep from people. Open your eyes and look around. There are not people dying in the streets in this country (yet). The madness needs to stop now.

That’s right, why do all Americans have to suffer for the plight of a few..

We don’t need to end slavery, why do all Americans have to suffer for the plight of a few?

We don’t need to desegregate, I mean why do all Americans have to suffer for the plight of a few?

We don’t need to let woman vote and have a right to equal and fair treatment, why do all Americans have to suffer for the plight of a few

There are other ways than following the Progressives like Franklin, Washington, Adams, or Jefferson! We’re Americans, why do we all have to suffer for a few? Jesus! Everyone gets treatment anyway, whether they have the money or not and the great Fairy-Medical-Mother pays for it!

It just keeps getting better doesn’t it?

Do you think if someone explained that the ‘charity’ and the ‘medicaid’ might only kick in when the disease has reached catastrophic levels  and had the person had coverage before it got that bad, it might have only cost the tax payers and charity houses a few hundred dollars instead of a few million, they’d understand?

Yeah, I don’t think so either.



While I sympathize with this lady, wouldn’t it have been easier if she just said she was in the uS illegally to get the care and not worrying about losing her house? Hmmm….maybe there is a problem.



if your to sick to work then your to sick to cotribute to the masses so you are exspendable


Did you see the floozy that introduced him in Strongville? Not hard to see what kind of trash she is.

That floozy-trash was Natoma’s sister. John Boehner was right though, the GOP is doing everything they can to stop health reform.

I don’t know about you, but after reading the stirrings from the FoxNewies- GOP sycophants I feel unclean. More than that though, I feel frightened that one day a candidate that holds these peoples beliefs as his/her own could one day rule this country. God help us when that day comes.

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28 responses to “They really will stop at nothing..

  • Howey

    I’m not going to worry about all this, ekg…

    First: The Democrats have two choices coming up regarding health care. Yes or No. What will they do? This guy says it best!

    By this time next week we’ll have seen huge headlines about health care. These headlines will either read “Democrats do it!”, followed by various Republicans and their apologists complaining that what the Dems did wasn’t nice, or “Democrats — losers again”, followed by Republicans going bwahahaha.
    And it’s up to a handful of Democrats to decide which headlines we get. They’re out of their minds if they don’t choose door #1.

    That said, a few random thoughts since health care reform is all but passed…

    I expect a flurry of last minute desperation from the right:
    All liquored up on sake” … “a suicide run” … bizarre invocations of assassination. Threats of civil (or perhaps not so civil) disobedience against new Health Care laws. The Republican rhetoric sure is heating up as momentum gathers for a final vote on Health Care Reform. But there’s no missing that it’s the intensity of desperation.
    He’s right. They won’t stop the whining, crying, cajoling, and flat out lies in the next few days as the FOX News, the Republican Party (and Sam and lilMike in particular) face the fact that their greatest fear is about to be realized

    But by Sunday, Democrats could not only have passed a health-care bill, but with it have pushed through the House of Representatives long-delayed legislation that would increase funding for Pell Grants, which help low-income students pay for college. They also could send to President Obama a $17 billion measure designed to create jobs.

    When all is said and done, when Armageddon doesn’t strike us down in 2012 in the form of Obama the Evil, when an increasing number of Americans return to work, when the economy turns and the deficit decreases, when these same Americans realize they can enjoy good health without breaking the bank, when We the People realize that the Republicans, Tea Baggers, Drudges, Rushes, Glenn Becks, lilMikes, Iceman’s and Sams were more intent on destroying the country then actually doing something to fix it…we will have a better country.

  • Howey

    I forgot…Since when did Sam move to Michigan and change his name to Jim???

  • ekg

    damn Howie!

    that’s a great reply!

  • lil mike

    Another anecdote.

    Well I guess as the countdown on the vote starts, emotional appeals replace reasoned argument, although in a way, that has really been the default argument all along. This story, just like all the other’s is more complicated than just a tag line in a speech.

    Canfield’s premiums increased 40% for 2010 which was why she dropped her coverage. Why would those greedy insurance companies increase their premiums so much?

    Ohio To Destroy Access to Individual Health Insurance?

    As of January 1, 2010, insurers in the individual market will be forced to offer open enrolment to people with any pre-existing condition, including cancer. Over time, the new law will force the insurer to charge the sickest new applicant no more than 1.5 times the premium of the healthiest beneficiary of the same age and gender.

    This will attract only the sickest of the sick to apply for individual coverage – after they’ve already been diagnosed.
    Sounds like an early taste of Obamacare.

    Frankly I’m surprised that her premium only rose 40%. And this is with Ohio regulating the price of its individual policies. How’s that regulation working out?

    So her health insurance became unaffordable due to Obamacare like reforms in Ohio. Can’t wait until we all get that kind of help. Of course under Obamacare she would be legally required to buy insurance, so she would still have her insurance, just not a house. But when she actually had the opportunity to make her own choice, she chose the house. Don’t worry though. Those individual and personal decisions will be going the way of the dodo.

    As far as anecdotes go, this one is akin to someone paying for home insurance for years, deciding to cancel their policy, and then a few weeks later their house burns down. Instead of being mad at themselves, they’re mad at the insurance company that they quit!

    Canfield’s letter asks, “I need your Health reform bill to help me!!!”

    She seems to be getting plenty of help. She is getting treatments at the Cleveland Clinic now.

    That is one of better cancer clinics in the country. I’d say she is in good hands.
    I guess she was lucky to get diagnosed with cancer pre-Obamacare too. She was diagnosed in her thirties. Now what were the ages recommended by the government for women getting mammograms? 50? She would have been a dead woman by now.

    From your news article, the Cleveland Clinic certainly thinks that she will qualify for State Medicaid. So I will go out on a limb and predicate a happy (or at least as happy you can be when diagnosed with leukemia) outcome as far as benefits go.

    Of course I doubt I will ever learn what happens to her. I suspect your interest in Canfield only extends up to the House vote. After that, she will be as forgotten by you as Ian Pearl, another anecdote who served his purpose and was discarded when no longer useful.

    How is Ian doing? Did he keep his private insurance, or did he succumb to the slow death of Florida Medicaid? I never understood how you and the left tried to turn the story of someone going to Medicaid and considering it a death sentence, as a story in favor of government healthcare.

    But I’m sure there will be more anecdotes, at least until the vote. An argument that is solely based on emotional appeal needs them. But I doubt you will be as interested in heathcare rationing or soaring premium anecdotes from me in a few years post-Obamacare.

  • ekg

    Can’t wait until we all get that kind of help.

    me either..

    Don’t worry though

    I’m not..

    I will go out on a limb and predicate a happy (or at least as happy you can be when diagnosed with leukemia) outcome as far as benefits go.

    I’m sure now that she’s been in the spotlight, and so have they, she’ll get everything they can offer her..

    I never understood

    and you never will..

    But I’m sure there will be more anecdotes

    yep, anything to make you see whats really at stake, not that you’ll care… But because even the Grinch eventually saw what a prick he was, there’s always hope.. Providing the numbers didn’t work,proving the increase services didn’t work,proving the increase quality didn’t work.. now you get to look at a mock actual people instead of just lumping them into unnamed numbers of the unwashed and unworthy..

    An argument that is solely based on emotional appeal needs them.

    nice opinion.. to bad it’s lacking when put up next to the facts..

    But I doubt you will be as interested in heathcare rationing or soaring premium anecdotes from me in a few years post-Obamacare.

    wow, I almost feel sorry that all you’ve got left is that sad old song and dance to return too.. But I used that feeling up yesterday when Drudge was rerunning his ‘death panel II’ headline.. sorry but that feary-tale has been exposed for the fallacy that it always was.. so since you’ve got nothing else short of assassination .. maybe you should tell your GOP buddies to stop standing in the way and just let the Dems commit suicide with this vote.. cause if ya’ll were really worried, you wouldn’t be putting up such a fight to stop’d be letting them lead themselves into the slaughter with a smile on your face..

  • Howey

    Desperate, I tell ya. Desperate!

  • Howey

    For your information lilMike, Ian Pearl’s involvement in the health care debate has led the State of NY to institute new laws preventing what happened to him. And, thanks to the “emotional appeal” from those of us (Democrats and intelligent people)his insurance was reinstated:

  • lil mike

    Thanks Howey!

    You actually provided some useful information that I was interested in. So Ian will stay on private insurance and not have to go to the death sentence that is Medicaid? Whew! That was the delicious irony of the entire Ian Pearl healthcare anecdote: Either he stays on private insurance or he’s condemned to a government death panel. You guys can sure pick some winners to promote your cause.

    And ekg, I loved the Grinch comparison. That really is a major difference between me and Santa Claus dems like yourself. You have sooo much compassion to spend someone else’s money. How noble that is! I could do some good in the world with someone else’s wallet too.

    .. maybe you should tell your GOP buddies to stop standing in the way and just let the Dems commit suicide with this vote.. cause if ya’ll were really worried, you wouldn’t be putting up such a fight to stop’d be letting them lead themselves into the slaughter with a smile on your face…

    Well I’ve no doubt that the dems are committing political suicide with this vote, at least for this year, but that’s the thing. They know it too, and think it’s worth it. And they’re right. It is worth it.

    Read de Tocqueville? So yes, the dems could pass this, and get wiped out in the elections this fall, but they still win.

  • Howey

    Desperation….sheer desperation…

    I’ve said repeatedly the problem with Medicaid isn’t the program as it was conceived. It’s with the republican governors around the nation who’ve raped it and made it impossible for physicians to get payment for their work.

    I guess you don’t go to my blog anymore, but you can find some very helpful information there.

    Or you can contact Mark Sanford, the Republican hero of South Carolina, who’s state has already done what Florida will soon do:

  • ekg

    That really is a major difference between me and Santa Claus dems like yourself. You have sooo much compassion to spend someone else’s money

    oh you didn’t mind spending OPM when it came to everything under the GOP/Bush moon did you.. then it was Santa and gum drops for everyone with a (R) after their name.. atleast this time, it’s for everyone.. we dems don’t have the same issues with the unwashed as you do..we want everyone to be healthy, not just our business elites..

    I mean seriously, you really think you can say anything about spending other peoples money..?


  • lil mike

    Bush again? As I recall I wanted his big spending bill repealed, and you want it expanded.

    So yes, I can say anything about spending other people’s money.

    Santa Claus Democrat!

  • ekg

    in 2003 the CBO scored and warned that Med-D would raise deficit $400 billion.. the GOP said “so” and signed it anyway..
    you mentioned an irritation with that..kinda.

    also in 2003, the CBO scored the Bush tax cut and said it would raise the deficit $350 billion.. the GOP said “so” and signed it anyway..
    You, didn’t say a word..

    in 2001 the CBO scored the start of the Bush tax cut and said it would raise the deficit $1.3 trillion..the GOP said “so” and signed it anyway..
    You, didn’t say a thing..

    none of which factor in the war spending..which you, wholeheartedly agree with

    Now, the CBO scored the Obama care plan which would help 95% of the country instead of screwing 95% of the country and says it will subtract, meaning take away, $138 billion from the deficit over 10 years, and more than a Trillion dollars the next 10 years..

    and yet, you come out against it? Because it costs too much?


    But yes, you can say anything you want about spending OPM.. sure..You’re an expert on it.. But when it comes to criticizing anyone for spending you can’t say anything with a shred of credibility.. and when it comes to saying it doesn’t save money, you’re just wrong..

    Like it or not, the fact is the GOP and yes, Bush, ran the deficit up so much that now the Dems have to find savings anywhere they can.. so I guess I should thank you for your rodeo drive deficit spending spree, since to help fix it, we have to have health reform..

    anyway, I can’t believe I ever thought you had some kind of hold on all this finance are just as forgetful and disingenuous as the rest of your party.. spending OPM on diamond,furs,cars and yachts like drunken whores and then yelling at the church matron for spending a $1 to feed the poor..

  • Howey

    Desperation…sheer desperation:

    Sam on the Muche:

    « on: Today at 01:49:32 PM » Quote


    EXCLUSIVE — Democrats plan doc fix after reform

    Democrats are planning to introduce legislation later this spring that would permanently repeal annual Medicare cuts to doctors, but are warning lawmakers not to talk about it for fear that it will complicate their push to pass comprehensive health reform. The plans undercut the party’s message that reform lowers the deficit, according to a memo obtained by POLITICO.


    An earlier post in this spot detailed what was purported by Republicans to be an internal Democratic memo regarding the upcoming health reform vote Sunday. Democratic leadership has challenged the authenticity of the memo. POLITICO has removed the memo and the details about it until we can absolutely verify the document’s origin.


    More than an hour after Politico pulls it, Sam posts it on the Muche.


    sheer desperation…

    1 vote to go!

  • Howey

    More from HuffPo:

    Democrats are charging that the GOP made up a fake messaging memo that purports to be from Democrats as a way to undermine the party’s message at the last minute. The memo was circulated to reporters — including this one — by a spokesman to House Minority Leader John Boehner. Politico reported on the memo and posted a story which the Drudge Report featured prominently.

    Looks like Boner’s the one who should be impeached…

    And the desperation continues…

  • lil mike

    Ekg, I’m confused why you keep trying to draw some sort of moral equivalence between us when it comes to government spending, as if to say, “hey, I love big government, but so do you!”

    Nope. And more to the point, you already know that since we’ve already covered all of the topics on the muche. So at this point, it’s pretty obvious that you are oblivious to reason. You have your meme, that we all support big government, just different types of big government, and you can’t seem to be shaken from that no matter what I say.

    So I won’t bother.

    However the fact that you still hold to that tells me that you really can’t see any alternative between your idea of big government: a benevolent state ready to wipe the tears from it’s child-like subjects, and a burley Cheney-Halliburton Military Dictatorship, establishing it’s iron rule across the planet.


    Sad that a limited state, as the founders wrote about in the Federalist Papers and yes, the Constitution, are as beyond your kin as any Middle-Earth fantasy. It’s sort of a philosophical blinders. You see two, and only two alternatives. Either you want to help mankind and easy suffering or you want to nuke those who are different. You’ve expressed that limitation over the years in many ways, but I’ve only slowly realized how limited you were. No wonder you never really understood much of what I said! By the time you ran it through your good/evil filter, it came out as nonsense. It’s a lesson not to waste much time following up with you, because you won’t understand what I’m saying, and we’ve had years of experience to back that up. And it’s actually gotten worse over the past two years as you’ve basically gotten everything politically you wanted; the most leftward President in our lifetimes a huge Democratic majority, and you are more pissed than ever.

    I think we can agree on that.

    And Howey, really? Medicaid in Florida is trashed because Republicans have ruined it? Do you mean to tell me that government healthcare is totally dependent on the political process? Interesting! That says much right there.

  • ekg

    It’s sort of a philosophical blinders.

    said the man who looked at the CBO numbers and never cared a squat because it was being spent on stuff he approved..

    Oh I understand and always have.. and you’re the one whose gone complete around the bend because even you cant argue the hypocrisy anymore . but you can’t not argue it either being ‘borg’ and all..and it’s distorting your mind..I’m not the only to see, I’m just the only one who will tell you..

    I told you this months, if not a year or more ago, you’ve gone totally

    ‘does not compute’ crazy..

    and it’s a shame..

    there may be other issue you still have credibility on, this one isn’t one of them.. the CBO scores this a budget-friendly and 95% of America friendly..and yet, you oppose..I wonder if the CBO scored it $1.2 trillion against the deficit and for 1% of the population if you’d have switched sides..

    I think you would have..

  • Howey

    “And Howey, really? Medicaid in Florida is trashed because Republicans have ruined it? Do you mean to tell me that government healthcare is totally dependent on the political process? Interesting! That says much right there.”

    Sorry, Mike. The days of you putting words in my mouth don’t exist. Try Kazzy.

    Your reply will be posted on my blog soon. Stay tuned…

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  • lil mike

    The CBO report? Answered on the muche.

  • Howey

    “The CBO report? Answered on the muche.”

    No. Not really. If what you and that blog state is true, can we anticipate the death of the CBO?

    From their website (

    How accurate are CBO’s budget projections?
    By statute, CBO’s baseline projections must estimate the future paths of federal spending and revenues under current law and policies. The baseline is therefore not intended to be a prediction of future budgetary outcomes; instead, it is meant to serve as a neutral benchmark that lawmakers can use to measure the effects of proposed changes to spending and taxes. So for that reason and others, actual budgetary outcomes are almost certain to differ from CBO’s baseline projections. For a related discussion, see Chapter 1 of CBO’s Budget and Economic Outlook; see also The Uncertainty of Budget Projections: A Discussion of Data and Methods for supplemental information.

  • Howey

    While we’re on the subject of accurate predictions (as opposed to yours) Mike, may I suggest you refer to my first post in this thread?


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  • when will the world end

    I am really interested in the theories behind the end of the world beliefs and have been researching it for 2 years now. The comments that you have given here are great. Does anybody know of any good resources where I can get even more information about 2012 theories.

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