Bat Boy journalism and Fox News..

Like I said in the blog,  ‘When does 2+2=4 become debatable? When it’s politics, stupid!” ,  Fox News adds 2+2 and comes up with 7. As if that wasn’t bad enough they get people to believe them instead truth and facts. They even pull the ‘Hey, we’ve researched’ it card to back up whatever claim they are making. Obviously if they’ve researched it and they are this adamant that their information is correct, then they should be believed… right?

Wrong.

O’Reilly lies to Coburn:

‘Nobody’s ever said’ at Fox you’ll go to jail if you don’t buy health insurance. Oh yes they have.



After Senator Coburn told a town hall meeting not to believe what they hear on Fox News, Bill-O decided he was going to take it upon himself to research his station and find out just when it was that anyone on Fox News said that under “ObamaCare” you would go to jail if you didn’t get health insurance.

O’Reilly: Well, tell me, what — because it doesn’t happen here.

And we researched to find out if anybody on Fox News

had ever said you’re going to jail if you don’t buy health insurance.

Nobody’s ever said it.

Well there you go, that solves it. This rumor was nothing more than another attempt of the “Lame stream media” to attack the honest hardworking fact checkers at Fox News, they researched this problem and found it to be an utterly false accusation.

except..


Beck: But if you don’t play by their new rules on health care, oooh, here’s a new little twist. Have you heard this? You’re going to be looking at a fun little stint in jail.

and

… But if you don’t play ball with them now, if you don’t get into their government health care, there will be jail time. And that of course was

Glenn Beck told his audience on Nov. 12, 2009 that they would go to jail. The next day on O’reilly’s own show, Beck was a a guest and repeated the same claim.


BECK: You know, this is the first time in history in our country where, just to be a citizen, just to not go to jail, you have to buy something.

This doesn’t include the Hannity shows and guests he’s had on who echoed same statements.

Sean Hannity tells viewers,

“Penalties for people who don’t get

government-mandated health insurance,

uh, jail time, a possibility?”

November 10, 2009:

If you just happen to be walking by the TV and the sound was off, you still got the news from Fox when they said at the bottom of the screen “Comply or go to jail.”

In a strange twist, a member of the Fox News team admits this was a falsehood spread by Fox News. Neil Cavuto has owned up to the myth Sen. Coburn was talking about.

“I’ve
researched this, and a
number of Fox
personalities had made that comment.”

Cavuto mentioned this fact the day after the O’reilly/Coburn interview, and even then O’reilly again went on his and insisted that  Sen. Coburn “didn’t really have his facts in line,” when it came to saying Fox News perpetuated the jail time myth.

2+2=7

If you are a viewer of Fox News of course you see that this is all just Lame Stream Media attack and spin, how in the hell could you see anything else? To you, Fox is just trying to keep the record straight and they are really having a hard time being the only name in news to give the “fair” and the “balanced”. The problem is, Fox news operates in another reality where they make up the facts and the research to back them up.  This is not the same as MSNBC spending night after night attacking Sarah Palin for using RNC donations for her clothes, her not returning the money for the ‘bridge to no where’ but spending it instead, or  her pimping for the Tea-Party Express which turns out not to be a grass-roots movement but a Republican Political Action Committee movement made up to fool real tea-party members into donating more money. All of that is real, researched truth,  which is the opposite of what you get when you turn to Fox News.

Look, if people want to believe in leprechauns and unicorns they can, there is nothing wrong with that. Thought and fantasy are still free in this world even if saying them out loud isn’t in some places. But for a “News” network to be considered ‘fair’ or ‘balanced’ or ‘trusted’ or hell, ‘news’ they have to follow the same rules as the others. If they want to only report on the other sides scandals and misdeeds to make them out to be the party not to be trusted, so be it! If they want to only report on their sides altruistic ideals and actions to make them seem like better party ok. They can’t claim ‘fair’ or ‘balanced’ but ok, have at it. But they cannot just make stuff up and repeatedly get away with it.  Not if their goal is News. If their goal is money, your money..as much of it as they can get, then hell Bat Boy journalism for everyone ! But stop labeling the product incorrectly.

This network has pretty much reduced themselves to, “Bat boy journalism” yet they demand to be treated like real journalism and will cry like scorned little girls the minute they aren’t taken as seriously as a Walter Cronkite-like news organization. Unfortunately for those of us who chose not to believe in unicorns and Bat Boy, we are forced to defend that which is slanted, but true because that slanted journalism is the excuse for the fake or made up journalism. The problem then becomes that we inspire more slant instead of more neutral.

If we didn’t have to live through the consequences of Bat Boy journalism and the voting populists I’d say let them have their sensational stories because like any Jerry Springer episode, they can be good for a laugh.  It’s when we would have to suffer through the choices of the ‘believers’ that we get not just Jerry Springer on TV, but Jerry Springer in the White House that it becomes a detriment to all.

I’m not knocking Springer, but I don’t want this country governed by those who believe his show is on the same level of journalism as a slanted, but accurate,  Rachael Maddow.

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15 responses to “Bat Boy journalism and Fox News..

  • Howey

    And once again Coburn, ala those who had to audacity to criticize Michael Steele, went back on the show the next day to pay his penance.

    Anyhow, read the following. It looks like the Tea Party/Fox love affair is getting a little too much scrutiny.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/16/hannity-cincinnati/

  • Mickey

    If one were to follow a line of logic, the statement could be made that “not buying health insurance can possibly lead to jail time” is in fact a true statement.

    59B of the health care bill makes an edit to the IRS code.

    It states that if someone does not have acceptable health care they can be taxed by the IRS at 2.5% of there income.

    If someone who really wants to stand up for what they believe in turn refuses to pay the tax, they will be fined.

    Further along the line and refusing to pay what they may see as an unfair tax, they can be sentenced to jail.

    If the government passed a law that said, “You must get kicked in the nuts”, I would say, “Uhm, no thank you.”

    “Uh, yeah, either get kicked in the nuts or you will pay a ‘TAX’ of 5%”

    “Uh, still no on the nut kicking, and I really don’t think I should pay”.

    “Ok, kick in the nuts, pay the tax, or pay the tax and a fine and still get kicked in the nuts.”

    “My answer is still no. No thank you.”

    “Oh, well. That’s tax evasion. Here’s your subpoena.”

    “Screw that!”

    “Hmm… that’s contempt of court as well. AND resisting arrest. My, my. Oh, what’s this? Aspirin? From a non-state sanctioned Wal-Mart? You bought unauthorized heathcare from Publix? Tsk Tsk.”

    “This is insane!”

    “You do realize that after you are done serving the 5 to ten, you’re still going to pay the tax and fine and you are still going to get kicked in the nuts. You’ll probably get kicked in the nuts and raped in jail. Why don’t we just get it over and kick you in the nuts right now?”

    Oreilly was a flip flopping waffle for backing down. And Cuvato is a troll.

  • Mickey

    Oh, and I guarantee any argument against what I just said will bypass and ignore any and all facts that I presented.

  • ekg

    I guarantee and argument against what I just said will bypass and ignore any and all facts that I presented

    really? as you presented them?

    are you sure?

    ok..

    52B of the health care bill makes an edit to the 401 of the IRS code.

    I assume by ’52B’ you mean

    SEC. 161. INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY ?

    I really don’t know since there isn’t a 52b 😉

    factually speaking tho, there is “Sec. 59B. Shared responsibility payments”

    is that the section?

    🙂 (factually speaking, I would be correct right? )

    as for the other part.. I can’t even find it to quote it right or wrong..there’s mention of a 1401 tax code, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the mandate as far as I’ve read at the moment..

    maybe you can find the ” edit to the 401 of the IRS code.” and we’ll go from there?

    http://patientsunitednow.com/files/full-bill-searchable.pdf

  • ekg

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,591222,00.html

    VAN SUSTEREN: So they become the police, sort of?

    VAUGHAN: Sort of. The — what the deputy commissioner — the point that he was trying to make was that the IRS is not going to come to your house
    , drag you jail if you don’t have — if you don’t have health insurance. And they’re also…

    VAN SUSTEREN: What are they going to do?

    VAUGHAN: Well, there’s a couple — there’s — they’re constrained by the law. They can’t put a levy against your house. They can’t put a lien against your boat or your property. One of the tools that they have is they can send you a notice saying, Our records indicate you don’t have insurance. You need pay a penalty. But even then, they have limited tools to sort of enforce that or make you pay the penalty. One thing they can do is withhold your refund.

    VAN SUSTEREN: That’s assuming you have a refund.

    VAUGHAN: Correct.

    VAN SUSTEREN: If you don’t have a refund, they’re not — I mean, they — they’re not going to withholding any refund.

    VAUGHAN: Exactly. So if you don’t have a refund, then there’s not — there may not be much they can do to enforce this.

    got more.. but will have to wait til later for it

  • ekg

    I can’t find anything in the bill about jail.. pretty much the consequences of not paying are monetary, not criminal. the IRS can take your refund and that’s about it.. if you don’t get a refund, well.. there isn’t much they can do..

    here’s another link explaining the same thing

    The agency hasn’t determined what resources it will need to enforce compliance with the new law, which contains “nothing too punitive,” he said. The health-care overhaul doesn’t have criminal sanctions for non-compliance.

    Beginning in 2015, Americans who don’t purchase insurance will be subject to a fine of $325, increasing to $695 in 2016. The law doesn’t authorize the IRS to go after bank accounts or seize assets, as it can in cases of delinquent tax debt

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-05/shulman-says-irs-has-few-punitive-ways-to-enforce-health-law.html

    They can’t even go after anything more than tax-returns..I think any ‘line of logic’ would have the IRS being able to seize other assets before jail time and since they can’t even do that? that ‘line’ ends at tax returns..

    i don’t know where you got your info from.. so I can’t really comment on it anymore until I know where you’re getting it and/or what part of the bill it’s in.. as far as I can find there is no ‘line of logic’ to incarnation for non-payment because there just isn’t any criminal sanctions in the bill.. so no, the statement “not buying health insurance can possibly lead to jail time” is simply not true.. since there is no provision for that..

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  • ekg

    Of course. I forgot why I never bothered discussing things with you.

    oh bullshit..

    if you want someone to discuss the ‘facts’ that you present, then shouldn’t you present ya know.. facts?

    I went through the bill and couldn’t find either section you talk. One was completely mislabeled and the other? well, still a mystery because you either can’t or won’t show where you got the language so it can even be discussed..

    you can’t just come out and say “any argument against what I just said will bypass and ignore any and all facts that I presented.”

    and then get all pissy because..

    A) what you presented was errors not facts
    and
    B)the documentation doesn’t back up your claim so you are asked where your information come from

    if you want to discuss theory and ‘what if’ that’s fine too.. but you pretty much flopped some info out there, claimed it as fact, and got assy when someone said.. “wait, not so fast”… and then presented what was really in the bill. If you disagree then fine, show me where your claim is backed up in the bill..but to get all insulting and pissy ?

    well, you took the EvilEye way out..

  • Mickey

    Let’s try this again…

    a) there is a tax for not having acceptable healthcare

    b) if you do not pay your taxes you must pay a penalty

    c) if you do not comply with the irs on a long enough time line, you go to jail.

  • ekg

    ok, let’s do try it again..

    a)there is no part of this law that allows for jail
    b)there is no part of this law that allows for anything other than a seizure of your tax refund.

    or

    -there is penalty for not getting healthcare..

    -that penalty is a fine

    -the penalty for not paying that fine is ONLY taken out of your tax refund. nothing else. it’s not taken out of your assets,a lien on your property.. nothing.. only your tax refund.

    if you do not get a refund, congrats you just found a way around the system because as the law is written the ONLY thing that can be done to you is the fine will be taken out of your tax return.. the end of the process is there. the end of the line is there. you can’t take this ‘line of logic’ any farther because that’s as far as it goes.

    Yes it’s thru the IRS, but unlike normal everyday tax evasion that does put you in jail, this penalty specifically omits criminal sanctions and only allows a penalty of seizure of a tax refund. that’s it.

    you’re trying to attach penalties for ‘tax evasion’ to this law when this law specifically denies such penalties and only applies the single penalty of loss of a full tax return.

  • ekg

    would you like this better?

    8 ‘‘(g) MODIFICATIONS OF SUBTITLE F.—Notwith9
    standing any other provision of law—

    10 ‘‘(1) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PENALTIES AND INTEREST.—In the case of any failure
    12 by a taxpayer to timely pay any tax imposed by this
    13 section—

    14 ‘‘(A) such taxpayer shall not be subject to
    15 any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect
    16 to such failure,
    and
    17 ‘‘(B) no penalty, addition to tax, or inter18
    est shall be imposed with respect to such failure
    19 or such tax.
    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:s1796pcs.txt.pdf

    in the House bill this was left off.. so your theory could have been correct.. but the Senate bill (the one that was passed and signed into law) it specifically states that there is no criminal penalty..

    here’s more


    http://www.slate.com/id/2247580/

    The answer, then, to the question What happens to people who don’t buy health insurance? is simple: They have to pay a $695 fine. But as Jost points out, that begs the question, What happens to people who don’t pay the fine? Uh … nothing. Please turn to Page 336 of the Senate bill, whose language has been adopted in the Obama proposal:

    In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.

    On that same page, it says the Health and Human Services secretary shall not

    file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty … or levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

    Fox is telling you someone gave you bad information when they told you you’d go to jail
    Slate is telling you someone gave you bad information when they told you you’d go to jail
    The law is posted twice for you to see for yourself that someone gave you bad information when they told you you’d go to jail
    redstate.com.. the uber conservative is telling you there is no jail time so they are advocating not paying anything because there really is nothing the IRS can do to you..so it’s their way of getting the bill repealed..


    http://www.redstate.com/menlo/2010/03/23/an-individual-mandate-that-isnt-mandatory/

    Did everyone get that? About the best they can do apparently is send you letters. That makes it quite easy for those who would prefer to not buy so-called “health insurance” until they need it or for those who, like me, simply object to being told to do it.

    I wondered if perhaps we could not get this whole bill repealed if enough of us (every single opponent) simply refused to buy coverage or pay a penalty. It wouldn’t matter for those who had special medical needs that were covered and used more than they put in. However, I’m not sure that enough people are opposed enough to make the sacrifice; only a tiny percentage of objectors likely won’t make any difference to the “health insurance industry” or the ability of the bill to be implemented or willingness of Congress to continue it. Otherwise, it could perhaps be a means of defunding it and perhaps creating enough of a crisis to get it repealed.

    I don’t know what more to do to prove to you that someone gave you bad info.. There are enough things wrong with this law to waste time on things that aren’t even in it or things that are specifically prevented from ever happening..

    Minds like yours are hard to change and I get that, hopefully you’ve been given enough true and factual information at this point to realize that you had the wrong information when you made your mind up in the 1st place..

  • ekg

    This is where this kind of thing drives me nuts. You present a theory that if taken to it’s ‘nth’ degree it will eventually lead to X. Sure, if you are fined for not paying a tax and you don’t pay the fine long enough, you will go to jail..your point proven. no amount of arguing can change that..you can walk away the victor.

    BUT

    that’s not how it works this time.. that argument doesn’t work because this time that ‘nth’ degree stops at ‘no criminal penalties’.. The line ends, so your point, for this specific theory, does not work.. It’s not that the law is ambiguous or to be left up to interpretation by someone.. it specifically rules out criminal punishment.

    but, you ignore that because in another realm, if you follow that line long enough you will eventually go to jail.

    you said any argument would bypass the facts you presented.. and yet, it didn’t.. but you have ignored the facts I presented and thus ignored the correct information given to you. I know you wanted to drag this out to a level where eventually, if left unpaid one would wind up in jail.. like, jaywalking can lead to a $1000 penalty and jail. One would say.. what? no way! but yes, if you got a jw ticket and didn’t pay it,had to go to court for non-payment and got court costs and new penalty, and didn’t pay that, then had a warrant issued for your arrest.. now you’re in jail,you have pay $500 to bail out, then $300 for court cost, the $300 for last fees.. and there you have jaywalking leads to a $1000 and jail.

    except in this case.. that line is ended with refund seizure and that’s it.

    Ignoring correct information.. or sloughing it off as “I just can’t talk to you”.. is why I rarely bother when it comes to talking to you,Craig,Mongo, and a few others.. you guy allow no dissent. The argument you present is the only logical one even when you are shown the logic is flawed..
    It always becomes the equivalent of a ‘religious’ conversation with EE.. with a denial of what is factual over a stubbornness and refusal to see where you could be mistaken..

    and the part that drives me nuts? You’re smarter than that and you didn’t get to be that smart by denying factual data over your own theories .. but since you are smarter than the person presenting what contradicts you(in this case,me).. or you feel that I just don’t see the line of logic you are presenting.. then you leave it as I just ‘don’t get it’ because I’m just not on your level..

    well, I got it.. and even more than that, I showed you why that line doesn’t exist in this instance..and where your presentation was mistaken. If you would like to show me something disproving anything I said great. But at this point I’m probably talking to myself anyway..the irony here is I was talking to myself from the moment I went to reply in the 1st place because I knew no matter what I presented.. it would be ignored..

    so I feel like this

    only.. I’m not that hot

    or on a laptop

    in wife-beater..

    but you know.. still.. it’s frustrating

    HA! =)

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  • Howey

    I’m a bit remiss in missing the one-way conversation here but I’d like to make an observation…

    Obscure,obtuse and unfunny characterizations of an unreal situation using unreal situations do not make good satire, irony, or funny.

    Ask Glenn Beck.

  • Howey

    Added: I’m also remiss in thanking Mickey for visiting Kelly’s blog regardless of his misguided thinking. 🙂

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